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| My contacts with Honda | |||
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Please
write your elected officials and NHTSA, the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration.
The
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says they are "People
saving People." Please write and ask them to help make you safer.
After all, how can you buckle up if the seat belt doesn't fit?
An extender is what I
asked Honda for. They told me "No." Honda admits, "It would be
easy and fairly inexpensive to provide extenders," but states that "it would not
be in the best interest of [my] safety" for them to do so. |
Notes
from Phone Conversations
Prior to the phone calls I have listed here, I spoke with Shane Bercegeay, Sales Manager at Team Honda in Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Summer with Honda Customer Service; and Frank Swartwout, Honda Customer Service Manager. 1/22/99 - Mary Sanchez I spoke with Mary Sanchez (310/783-2000 phone and 310/783-3900 fax), who is in Mr. Koichi Amemiya's office, and she told me that my fax to Mr. Amemiya had been sent to Honda's Product Regulatory department, and to Honda North America. If I have not heard back from them within a week, I am to call her back at 310/783-3153. 1/29/99 - Mary Sanchez I phoned Ms. Sanchez again. She checked in her computer to see who she had forwarded my letter to, and she transferred me to Mr. Kobayashi's office in the Product Regulatory Department. There I talked to Becky Benitez (310/783-3280). She told me that she had forwarded my letter to Mark Brooks and Bill Willen, lawyers for Honda. My letter was forwarded so they could examine liability issues. Bill Willen is out of the office today, but when he calls in later, she will talk to him about it. 2/2/99 - Becky Benitez I phoned Becky Benitez back. She said that Bill Willen forwarded my letter to Doug Helmer, Consumer Affairs Manager, at 310/783-3259. 2/2/99 - Doug Helmer I phoned Doug Helmer, but he was away from his desk. I left a message on his voice mail. 2/2/99 - Rodney Boudreaux Rodney Boudreaux phoned me. He is one of four team Environment Leaders for Customer Service in the American Honda Consumer Affair's department. Mr. Helmer turned my fax over to him. He said that seatbelt extenders are not available at this time, that they were available until 1996, and that the legal department told him that the matter was "being looked at," and was "under review" at this time. They were discontinued due to issues of integrity and liability, although liability was not the major concern. When I asked what he meant by integrity, he mentioned something about where the belts would lay when a seatbelt extender is being used. Mr. Boudreaux said this is something he is familiar with, and he looks at it again every year when a new model comes out. He also told me that his sister had had the seatbelts modified in two vehicles she owned, a Lincoln, and a Mustang. I asked if I had any other recourse within Honda, or if this was it. He said there was nothing else that could be done. When I asked him about the safety issue of riding unbelted, he said I shouldn't buy a vehicle that doesn't fit me. I asked him if he would put what he had told me (that Honda will not provide the extenders) in writing, and he said he would do that, and mail it to me. 2/22/1999 Telephone message from Rodney Boudreaux, with American Honda Consumer Affairs Today there was another message on my answering machine.... "Yes, good morning, Ms. Fisher, this is Rodney Boudreaux, with American Honda Consumer Affairs. I just wanted to let you know we have not forgotten about you. I have composed the letter. It is going through legal channels still. It looks like a lot of people did want to take a look at this. I am hoping to have this finalized this week and have it in the mail to you. If you have any questions, feel free to give me a call. I can be reached at 800-999-1009 ext. 118050. Thank you for your patience and have a wonderful day." Today is 2/22/99 and the letter was composed before 2/8/99. Three weeks since my original conversation with Rodney Boudreaux, and almost three months since I started contacting Honda, and I still don't have a written response from them. 2/8/1999 Telephone message from Emmett Simmons, with the headquarters of American Honda Motors in Torrence, CA. Today when I got home from work, there was a message on my answering machine from a man who identified himself as Emmett Simmons (800-999-1009, ext 118045). He said he is with the headquarters of American Honda Motors in Torrence, CA. He was asked by Honda Customer Service Team Leader Rodney Boudreaux (someone I spoke with last Tuesday), to give me a call and advise me that the letter I requested has been composed and is awaiting approval. As soon as approval is received, the letter will be mailed. I phoned him back when I got the message, and he told me that Rodney Boudreaux, the Customer Service Team Leader I spoke with last week, is out of the office for the next week. Mr. Simmons is Mr. Boudreaux's superior. What they are sending me is a Honda Official Position letter, and it has to be approved by legal before it is mailed to me, because it could be considered a legal document. When I asked him why Honda doesn't provide seatbelt extenders, he said it is a matter of integrity of the vehicle, and the lessening of the integrity of the vehicle when it is modified in any way. He said that some years ago, Honda decided they would not provide extenders because any modifications to the vehicle can result in lessening of vehicle integrity. He went on to say that Honda is "not going to do it," and that "nothing I do is going to make them do it." (These are exact quotes, because I was writing down what he said.) Their policy was written on 11/2/95, and it's a position that is emphatic. They're emphatic about their position. He has not known of them in a circumstance like this to change. It is a steadfast position. He wasn't sure how long it would take to get the letter from them, that will depend on how long it takes the legal department to review it.
Fax and Mail Correspondence with Honda January, 1999 Fax sent to Frank Swartwout, Customer Service Manager for Honda FAX Hi, Below is the letter that was originally faxed to you for me by Shane Bercegeay, Sales Manager at Team Honda in Baton Rouge, LA. My letter is in reference to the availability of seatbelt extenders for Honda vehicles. I spoke with Summer, one of your customer service representatives, on December 29th, and she said that Honda does not provide seatbelt extenders for any of its vehicles. I have phoned you twice since this letter was originally faxed (leaving messages on your voice mail both times), and am faxing it to you again now at your request. You may contact me before 4:30 p.m. Central time at work, or evenings at home. If you leave me a message, please leave it at my home number. Thanks. Elizabeth Fisher December 30, 1998 Mr.
Frank Swartwout Dear Mr. Swartwout, Yesterday my husband and I were at Team Honda in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, test-driving a Honda Odyssey EX. I would like to compliment Honda’s Development Team for the obvious attention paid to making this vehicle roomy, comfortable, and functional. We were particularly impressed with the "magic" rear seat, being able to open both sliding doors remotely, and even the attention to small details like the moveable drink tray, the special storage bin under the driver’s seat, and the clever way the spare tire is stored. Indeed, I think you guys must have tried to think of everything! We like to do our research before we go to the dealership, so we knew quite a bit about the Odyssey before we ever saw one up close. One of the most important things on our checklist is reliability, and although we’ve never owned a Honda, my parents drive a Passport, my best friend has a new Civic, and I have a sister and brother who wouldn’t drive anything else. Their satisfaction played a role in our decision to consider a Honda product. Another important item on our checklist is the vehicle’s ability to accommodate larger passengers and passengers with less agility. In all aspects the Odyssey is an excellent vehicle for less agile passengers. The sliding doors in the EX can be opened and closed automatically, and it’s possible to get in the vehicle without really having to bend down or step up. There’s also lots of hip and leg room, so larger passengers and drivers can be comfortable as well. However, one important safety detail has been overlooked--seatbelt extenders, or provisions for longer seatbelts for larger passengers. I am both puzzled and concerned by this oversight, especially coming from a company that cares enough about their customers to work in partnership with the National Safety Belt Coalition (http://nsc.org/traf/sbc.htm) to promote seatbelt usage. Our Chrysler dealership provided four seatbelt extenders for our 1995 Eagle Vision, and I’ve checked with Toyota, Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet, and Nissan, and they all provide these extenders at no extra cost. I live in Louisiana and the law here requires all front-seat passengers to wear seatbelts. Violators can be pulled over and both driver and passenger ticketed for this single offense. Jim Brown, the Louisiana Insurance Commissioner believes it’s an issue of safety--"Seatbelt usage is just one way [this] tougher law will save lives." And although I have no desire to break the law, my true concern is in putting my life or my friends’ lives in jeopardy, should we ever be involved in an accident. What I am asking first is that provisions be made to correct this problem in the Odyssey EX we are purchasing, but it is also just as important that Honda provide alternatives for other customers, and make these alternatives known to all dealerships. Our lives may depend on you. Sincerely, Elizabeth Fisher 1/19/99 Frank Swartwout replied by phone Mr. Swartwout said that Honda "doesn't provide seatbelt extenders," and that they have no policy about it. It's something they have "never done." He said it "may" be a liability issue, but he doesn't know why they don't provide them. He offered to pass my suggestion on, but suspects that if it came up for review in the future, he doubts their policy will change. When he brought up the issue of liability, I said something like "Liability? So it's safer to ride unbelted?" He really didn't have anything to say, other than I shouldn't buy a vehicle that didn't fit me. When I told him that this might make me rethink my vehicle purchase, he said "We'd like to have you as a customer, but certainly would understand you rethinking your purchase." It was at this point my husband and I decided it would be easier to start at the top of the company (at least at the top of American Honda Motor Company), and work my way down. 1/19/99 Fax to Koichi Amemiya, President, American Honda Motor Company FAX Dear Mr. Amemiya, My husband and I are purchasing our first Honda vehicle, the 1999 Odyssey EX minivan, and are wanting to get seatbelt extenders for it. We thought this would be a simple matter of contacting the parts department, as we did when we bought a Chrysler product, but neither the Sales Manager for the dealership, or Frank Swartwout, Customer Service Manager for American Honda, have been able to help us. I spoke with Mr. Swartwout on the phone earlier today, and he said that Honda "doesn’t provide seatbelt extenders." He did not know why they weren’t offered, although he thought it "might" be a liability issue. I am mystified as to why Honda, which prides itself on attention to safety, is willing to risk the lives of larger passengers by not providing seatbelt extenders, an item which is a standard issue part with most other automobile manufacturers. I am asking you to look into this situation and give me a clear explanation of Honda’s policy on seatbelt extenders. If it truly is Honda’s policy not to provide these, I ask you to consider changing this policy, in the interest of safety for larger passengers. I have included a copy of the fax I sent to Mr Swartwout. Sincerely, Elizabeth Fisher 3/3/99 American
Honda's letter to me American
Honda Motor Co., Inc. Dear Mrs. Fisher: We have received your fax and letter regarding the seat belts in the 1999 Odyssey. We are sorry that you are not able to fit in to the seat belts of the 1999 Odyssey and though we do not want to lose you as a customer, we feel that seat belts are important. As required by federal standards, Honda's seat belts are designed to fit 95% of all U.S. adults in any seating position. Seeing aside the smallest 2.5% of the population, that means 97.5% of all U.S. adults can move their vehicle seat as far forward as possible and still have 4" of slack in the retractor. Many problems can be solved by simply moving the vehicle seat rearwards. A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration indicates that moving the vehicle seat 1" toward the rear results in an additional 2" to 3" of effective seat belt length. Moving the seat back 2" produces an effective gain of 4" to 6". Honda does not offer seat belt extenders because it believes they are not the best or safest solution for customers unable to use standard seat belts. Seat belt extenders can increase safety risks. They change the geometry of the lap/shoulder belt design. If the lap portion does not fit snugly across the hips, there is a greater chance that the occupant can 'submarine' or slide under the belt and sustain abdominal injuries. A seat belt extender can also change the angle of the shoulder portion of the belt. As the belt becomes more vertical, this increases the chance that the occupant will roll sideways out of the belt during a crash. We have reviewed the photographs in your website and they clearly demonstrate the potential for serious injury. In even a moderate accident, when seatbelts ride on the abdomen there is a tremendous force that can be focused on the two inch band of material comprising a seat belt which can result in serious or potentially fatal internal injuries. Additionally, because the seat belt material is designed to have some stretch it is highly possible that the abdomen of a large person sitting very close to the steering wheel will come in contact with the steering wheel rim, again potentially causing or aggravating internal injury. Add to that the possibility of a deploying air bag and the risk of injury to someone sitting so close to the steering wheel is very high indeed. That is why it is important to sit as far back as practical from the steering wheel, and why it is important to be able to fit the seat belt as it was designed, without an extender. You may want to look for a vehicle that does not require seat belt extenders for you, or even pedal extenders, in order to maximize the protection offered by seat belts. Unfortunately, a car cannot be designed to fit all people. For any given model, some people will be too tall, some will be too short, and some will be too large. Regarding seat belt fit, government reports state, though desirable to fit 100% of the U.S. population in safety belts, this goal is not believed feasible. Again, we apologize that we can no accommodate your request for seat belt extenders, while it would be easy and fairly inexpensive to provide extenders, it would not be in the best interest of your safety. Thank you again for providing this office with the opportunity to address your concerns regarding seat belt extender availability for Honda vehicles. Should you have any questions, feel free to contact our office at 800/999-1009. Sincerely, AMERICAN
HONDA MOTOR CO., INC. cc:
Center For Automobile Safety
3/21/99 My response March 21, 1999 AMERICAN
HONDA MOTOR CO., INC. Dear Mr. Hellmer: In your March 3, 1999 letter to me, you outlined why Honda will not provide larger passengers with seat belt extenders. It seems to me that the issue comes down to whether larger passengers in Honda vehicles are safer riding belted (by using an extender or a longer belt than is currently provided), or unbelted. The American Automobile Association, in a recent letter supporting my request for extenders, stated that 73 percent of passenger car occupants who were ejected from a vehicle were killed. The National Center for Statistics and Analysis (NHTSA), shows that only 1 percent of individuals using safety belts were reported as being totally ejected compared to 20 percent of those not using a restraint. Your assertions that seat belt extenders are unsafe are not convincing. Some of your comments indicate to me that you may not fully understand how larger passengers fit into vehicles, which makes me question your ability to determine whether extenders are safe or not. Since so many automobile manufacturers do offer seat belt extenders, it is obvious that it is not an indisputable point that they are unsafe. If you have strong evidence from research supporting your contention that seat belt extenders are unsafe, you should publish this information so that all may be made aware of your findings. I am sending a copy of your letter, along with this reply, to automobile manufacturers who provide seat belt extenders, so they will be made aware that you feel a product they offer their customers is unsafe. Based on your assertion that your seat belts will fit all but the largest 2.5 percent of the U.S. adult population, and considering the size of the United States' population, there are millions of people who may not be able to fasten seat belts in Honda vehicles. Since I put up my website to detail and document this situation (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us), numerous individuals who are riding unbelted in Honda Civics, Accords, Passports and CRVs have contacted me. Although your policy may be within minimal federal regulations, it ignores your social responsibility to provide a means for larger passengers to fasten their seat belts. You are marketing the Odyssey as the "biggest Honda ever." Your advertisements call it "more spacious, versatile," and "one big happy minivan." In an inch-by-inch comparison on your website (http://www.honda.com), the Odyssey is consistently larger than all other minivans in length, height, width, shoulder room, hip room, and leg room. You are producing vehicles that larger people are going to be attracted to; it is unconscionable that you are not addressing the need for longer seat belts. Sincerely, Elizabeth Fisher cc: Center for Automobile Safety, Honda Motor Co., Ltd., Air Bag & Seat Belt Safety Campaign, American Automobile Association, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Volvo Cars North America, General Motors, Daimler/Chrysler, Ford Motor Co., Mitsubishi Motor Sales of America, Mazda North America, Toyota Motor Sales USA 6/1/99 I never heard back from Honda, so I wrote Koichi Amemiya again. June 1, 1999 Mr.
Koichi Amemiya, President Dear Mr. Amemiya: I am a Honda customer writing again to ask you to provide a means for larger passengers in Honda vehicles to be able to wear seat belts. On March 3, 1999, I received a letter about this issue from Douglas Hellmer, Manager of National Consumer Affairs for Honda.* I replied to Mr. Hellmer’s letter over two months ago, and have not received a response. Surely it is not your company’s practice to ignore the concerns of its customers? In Mr. Hellmer’s letter he said, "we apologize that we can not accommodate your request for seat belt extenders, while it would be easy and fairly inexpensive to provide extenders, it would not be in the best interest of your safety." My question to you is this: If seat belt extenders are not in the best interest of the safety of larger passengers, what is? Surely American Honda is not suggesting that people who are unable to ride belted in Honda automobiles are better off riding unbelted than they would be by using a belt that has an extender attached to it? In his letter of April 13, 1999, Robert C. Lange, General Motors’ Engineering Director, tells me that "belted occupants are safer than unbelted occupants even if those belts are used with an extender."* Mr. Hellmer says Honda’s seat belts meet U.S. federal safety standards, which, after researching, I have found means that you are required to belt adult males up to 6 ft. tall and 215 lbs.** This means that you are not legally required to provide seat belts for about 15 million people in the United States. However, I believe Honda has a social responsibility to provide seat belts for larger passengers even if you are not legally required to provide them. In a collision, unbelted passengers riding in Hondas are a danger to themselves, other passengers in their vehicles, and even to passengers in other vehicles. It seems to me that this situation could create a public relations nightmare for Honda. I have received emails from people around the world who tell me they cannot understand your position. One man who wrote me recently was desperate to find seat belt extenders for his new CRV. He had no idea that the existing belts wouldn’t fit his mother, until AFTER he purchased the vehicle. If the man who wrote me were trying to belt his infant child, instead of his mother, he could go down the street to Wal-Mart and buy what he needs. Unfortunately, the piece of safety equipment larger Honda passengers need is not available at Wal-Mart, or anywhere else, at any cost. Chrysler, Plymouth, Chevrolet, Lincoln, Ford, Mitsubishi, Mercury, Dodge, Mazda, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Toyota, Cadillac, Volvo, and Nissan all provide extenders as a solution for their larger passengers who cannot buckle the factory-installed seat belts. Your public relations manager even says extenders would be easy and fairly inexpensive to provide. If your concern is liability issues, or that the seat belt extenders are going to be worn improperly, why not look into how other manufacturers are addressing those concerns? Toyota provides information on the proper use of seat belt extenders in their owner’s manuals.* Chrysler puts a caution on the back of each extender. Volvo requires their customers to sign something before they’ll provide extenders. Air bags also can be dangerous if used improperly and you post warnings about proper air bag usage, why not do the same for seat belt extenders? I believe my request that Honda provide a means for larger passengers to fasten their seat belts is very reasonable and deserving of a response. Sincerely, Elizabeth Fisher *Mr. Lange’s and Mr. Hellmer’s letters, and excerpts from a Toyota Owner’s manual are available on my website: http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us. ** Department of Transportation. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards Sec. 571.209 Standard No. 209: Seat belt assemblies. In: Code of Federal Regulations (Title 49, Volume 5, Publication No. 49CFR571.209) Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office. 1998: 531-556. |
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